Andy Gray on the Nigel de Jong challenge
Every week, Betfair Football's star tipster Andy Gray will be picking out and answering his favourite question out of those he is asked on Twitter and Facebook. Here's his answer to this week's poser...
"Was the Dutch coach right to drop Nigel de Jong? And was SI.com's Grant Wahl right to call him the 'dirtiest player in world soccer'?" - @PaulLomax
A lot has been made of Nigel de Jong's tackle on Hatem Ben Arfa last weekend. The incident has since attracted extra attention as a result of Bert van Marwijk's decision to drop the Manchester City man from his Dutch squad to play Moldova and Sweden, claiming this time he went too far.
His decision is an interesting one and must be interpreted as him making the point to de Jong that he doesn't condone those sort of tackles, nor does he want him being part of his plans when he's doing things like that. A similar thing happened to me under Jock Stein when I was playing for Scotland; he told me he was leaving out of a particular squad to teach me a lesson. It doesn't matter anymore what it was that I did wrong, it was a long time ago!
But let's get back to the crux of the issue. Newcastle and Ben Arfa are obviously disappointed with what's happened and understandably so: the boy was just beginning to settle in this league and the team have been deprived of one of their best creative forces for an indefinite amount of time.
But I don't think it was a malicious tackle; replays show he didn't catch him with his leading foot, it was his trailing leg that made contact and it was just very unfortunate that the damage that caused was so severe.
De Jong is an extremely committed player and anyone who plays in that sort of role, running around the field making tackles, is always at risk of causing a serious injury but I'll maintain he didn't go out to injure the Frenchman. And that's why I'm not in the camp that believes he should receive retrospective punishment for the challenge.
It's a very unfortunate incident all round and I'm sure the FA and its referees will be keeping a close eye on de Jong's future conduct but for the time being we should just put the whole thing down as just something that happens in football from time to time and leave it at that.
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Published: 8 Oct 2010
Alphie Izzet (October 7, 2010 2:21 PM) said:
It was not an illegal tackle.
End of story for DeJong (or should be)
Very unfortunate for Ben Arfa.
drasl (October 7, 2010 2:25 PM) said:
Yeah, its just one of those things that happens in football. It is just a shame that it happens a lot more often around some players..
Nigel De Jong probably didnt intend to hurt Ben Arfa, but he sure as hell wasnt playing with the interest of the Newcastle player in mind.. He went into the tackle knowing he would get the ball and the rest, well De Jong didnt care about the rest. What ever happens, happens.
Footballers like this make me sick.
blue blinkers (October 7, 2010 3:17 PM) said:
DeJongs ommission is nothing to do with Bert van Marwijk's wanting him out of the way so he can leave a gaping hole for his god awful son-in-law Mark van Bommel
Sarge (October 7, 2010 3:20 PM) said:
How refreshing to see that andy hasn't jumped on the de jong bashing bandwagon, I've been amazed at the reaction to this tackle, it was a good fair challenge and if Ben Arfa hadn't broken his leg that challenge would have added to De Jong's reputation as one of the best defensive midfielders in the game..
yawn (October 7, 2010 3:33 PM) said:
De Jong did what he is paid to do and that is to tackle the opposition. The reaction of all the players to the tackle was no different than for any other tackle. Ben Arfa's injury is unfortunate but that is all. The witch hunt of De Jong is beyond a joke.
Colin (October 7, 2010 3:47 PM) said:
De Jong won the ball end of story he tackles hard and so he should this is still a contact sport feel sorry Ben Arfa wish him a speedy recovery but in the light of day de Jong tackle was a very good challenge wich he does on a weekly basis for his club it was just unlucky this time . The make of the boots don't help these days with longer blades on the side to get more grip which go further into the ground to enable better grip when turning also if the pitch was dryer then his blades wouldn't of been so set in the ground and on a harder surface his leg would of gone from under him instead of staying put these tackles have to stay in football all fans love a good hard tackles 9 times out of 10 nothing would of happened this time it did it's not nice and it's very unlucky but it is part of the game so let's move on gods sake Roy Keane's tackle on Alfie Halaand did get this much press and that was ment to hurt the guy
Edwin (October 7, 2010 4:58 PM) said:
Well said and fair review, Andy Gray.
ming the merciless (October 7, 2010 8:04 PM) said:
can't believe i'm saying this but well said andy gray, most city fans feel that andy is a bit of a city hater.
i was at the match against newcastle and the de jong tackle hardly caused any reaction from either set of fans at the time other than a round of applause from the city fans for a great tackle, gutted for the lad that de jongs trailing leg caused his injury but that was down to bad luck.
jak (October 8, 2010 2:24 AM) said:
Any Grey was as hard as nails, gave plenty and took plenty and never complained. Spent a lot of time injured as well for his bravery. He called it like it was, a fair tackle. Newcastle with all the complaints to the FA ect are just playing to the media. The irony is they have one of the few dirty players in the prem. Mr. Barton who is a genuine thug.
Martin Grayfield (October 8, 2010 7:15 AM) said:
Fair tackle
Fair points well made by Andy G
Shut up Stan Collymore !!
Interesting that that manager and assistant at Newcastle haven't come out against NDJ.
Very sorry for the lad but this is a contact sport and this happens. Strange isn't it that we used to have players called Chopper Harris and the like.
Think Danny Murphy's comments seem appropriate too, but note he didn't label Mancini in the attack.
Will (October 8, 2010 9:54 AM) said:
No, it wasn't a fair tackle and anyone who says otherwise clearly knows nothing about football. The laws of the game say a reckless challenge made with excessive force is punishable by a red card. That was reckless. He may have got the ball, but he deliberatly caught Ben Arfa with his trailing leg, smashing his knee into the Newcastle player. Just because you've won the ball doesn't mean you get to do what you like.
Sad to see Andy Gray sitting on the fence on this one. Or is it just another case of a pundit who hasn't bothered to learn the laws of the game?
Mick (October 8, 2010 10:50 AM) said:
The Holland FA's action seems to be motivated by the media backlash they got from the World Cup (following De Jongs high foot on Alonso).
In De Jongs recent tackle De Jong had won the ball and Ben Arfa was caught by a trailing knee on his planted foot . The referee was well placed and did not deem it a foul. If you look at any of De Jongs Tackles he never deliberately targets the man his eyes are always 100% on the ball. Perhaps he is too committed but he is not dirty. I agree with Andy Gray that he will be a carefully watched man from now on but I hope the referees are strong enough to view each tackle objectively and not to penalise him because of media hysteria.
Foxtrot Oscar (October 8, 2010 10:54 AM) said:
The laws of the game actually state "A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent"
Nothing there about a red card, Will. So who has bothered to learn the laws of the game?
A straight red card can only be given for one of seven offences, only two of which are relevant here: serious foul play and violent conduct. Since the referee saw the tackle and did not consider it to be illegal or to use excessive force (the referee's view being paramount, something else you are forgetting), neither of these offences were deemed to have taken place.
So are you accusing the referee of corruption or ineptitude? Either way, FIFA doesn't care - the rules do not consider referees to be fallible. Their implementation by UEFA and the FA may allow the referee to change his mind later (or appeals and retrospective sanctions to be made), but that's not covered by the rules.
Would suggest you read them yourself next time. Please don't tell me you are any kind of referee.
legend (October 8, 2010 1:19 PM) said:
Foxtrot Oscar - genius comment, will, go home and re-apply for your refereeing badges.
Jon (October 8, 2010 1:32 PM) said:
Will, what are you suggesting De Jong should have done instead? Gone in with 2 feet (illegal) or left his trailing leg behind (physically impossible)? The only thing left is not to tackle. Is that really the sort of football you want to see?
nick (October 8, 2010 6:05 PM) said:
Foxtrot Oscar - spot on fella, when you get into the nitty gritty of the laws and challenge these OTT idiotic comments with fact you get very little reply other than 'Reckles blah blah blah thug blah blah De Jong should be charged with attempted murder blah blah blah'.
I'd love to hear someone challenge the clowns like Collymore on TalkS**** radio but they'd probably just cut you off.
CCcracker (October 9, 2010 8:44 AM) said:
The tackle was legal; the result unfortunate. The rest is just hot air.
Rastapat (October 9, 2010 5:31 PM) said:
De Jong is clearly a dirty player but I'm almost positive he would not intentionally break a fellow professional's leg.
Cattermole, Barton, Scott Brown, half of Stoke and Blackburn's sides, Paul Scholes (sublime skill but a total hatchet man) et al regularly put other players' careers at risk by engaging in ridiculous challenges.
By law of averages it had to happen to someone at some point. Such a shame it was Ben Arfa who I saw for Lyon a few years back and thought he was excellent. Newcastle will be gutted.
Will (October 15, 2010 2:48 PM) said:
Foxtrot Oscar, why would there be anything about red cards in the section of the laws dedicated to direct free kicks?
I would suggest you read the correct section of the laws next time you may learn something. Like how it's automatically serious foul play if a tackle endangers the safety of a player...
Or are you arguing that a broken leg doesn't count as someone being endangered?
Foxtrot Oscar (October 18, 2010 8:27 AM) said:
Will, by your argument any tackle which breaks a bone or results in a serious injury is automatically a red card, even if accidental. Which is why the word 'intent' gets used a lot, even though the word doesn't appear in that rule.
No-one other than De Jong can say whether he *deliberately* used the trailing leg to catch the guy. You are speculating.
As I said in my reply, all of this is down to the view of the referee, who despite having a clear view of the tackle, didn't even rate it as a foul.
The referee didn't do anything, the FA didn't do anything. I suggest you get over it and move on.
Will (October 18, 2010 12:45 PM) said:
Foxtrot Oscar, you're right, intent doesn't appear in the rule. Where did I mention that? I'll ask you again, does a broken leg not count as a player being endangered? Yes or no?
And it's not my argument, that's what it says in the laws of the game. The laws you seemed to think backed you up until you realised they didn't.
The ref didn't do anything, the FA didn't do anything. I wonder if we have to wait until someone's career is ended until that situation changes...
I suggest you stop being so blinkered and take a wider look at a serious issue which could blight football unless something is done about it.
Jimmy (October 24, 2010 6:36 AM) said:
Wow ! You guys really need to get out more .. these things happen in football .. they happen in every sport, he got a red card, injury was unfortunate, end of.